-Discover why you should have a will at any age. -Find out the triggers that dictate an update of your will or estate plan. -Learn more about the benefits of using Willful and what the platform can do for you
When it comes to difficult conversations, those around wills and estate plans tend to top the list. The planning can be emotional, overwhelming or costly. But it is a conversation worth having, if you want to ensure your wishes are carried out and the process itself doesn’t need to be as complicated as you may think.
On this episode of Smart Advice, we are joined by Willful’s CEO and Co-Founder, Erin Bury. She shares the inspiration and motivation behind the birth of Willful, a do-it-yourself online will platform that simplifies essential components of the estate planning process. Erin also talks about the importance of estate planning early on and when to update your estate plan.
If you want to ensure your loved ones are taken care of, long after you are gone, this episode is for you.
Create a will online in less than 20 minutes and get a 20% discount as a CIBC client with our partnership with Willful
Carissa Lucreziano: Welcome to Smart Advice, a podcast bringing you financial advice, investment strategies, and economic trends. I'm CIBC’s financial advice expert, Carissa Lucreziano. Throughout various stages of our lives and for a good chunk of our lives, we are working towards building wealth. We put wants on hold to see for priority goals like providing a child with an education, investing money for the future.
We focus on paying down debt to build wealth through real estate, and growing startup businesses into successful corporation. In other words, we work really hard for what we accomplish. And in most cases, it is for much more than just the financial gain and comfort. It’s to achieve milestones and take care of our loved ones. But for 50% of Canadians, it stops there. Without further planning for how all of the fruits of their labor will live on.
Yes, 50% of Canadians don't have an estate plan or simply put, do not have a will. No plan of how or whom to distribute assets to like a home, a cottage, or investment accounts. No plan for guardianship for children or care dependents, nor instructions on who will inherit precious personal property like jewelry, artwork, and collectibles. For 50% of Canadians, someone else the courts, in most cases, are making these decisions.
Wouldn't you rather be in the driver's seat for everything you have worked so hard for? Well, you're gonna want to listen in. Joining me today is an entrepreneur who is revolutionising the way we approach this crucial aspect of our lives and plan for the future. Erin Bury is the CEO and co-founder of Willful, a do-it-yourself online will platform that simplifies essential components of the estate planning process, so you can create your legal will and other documents in 20 minutes or less. Yes, 20 minutes.
Erin has been featured in multiple articles in publications such as The Globe and Mail, the Toronto Star, Canadian Business, and MoneySense, just to name a few. She is a highly sought-after speaker on entrepreneurship and estate planning. And she was also named one of Bay Street Bull's 2021 Women of the Year and even an appearance on Dragon's Den.
Congratulations on that, Erin. I'm so thrilled to have you on the podcast. We've worked together in the past. I'm such a big fan of what you're doing, and Willful is a great partner to CIBC, helping provide our clients with protecting their wealth.
Erin Bury: Thank you so much, Carissa. I'm thrilled to be here.
Carissa: Erin, I have so much I want to discuss with you today from the creation of Willful to the importance of having a will. So let's dig in. Erin, I know you've mentioned that Willful was born out of a personal family experience you had to deal with. Can you tell us a bit more about this driving force that led to the creation of your company?
Erin: Absolutely. Well, my husband's uncle unfortunately passed away suddenly, several years ago. And if you've ever lost a loved one, you know that you're often left with unanswered questions. And in this case, we really were struggling to figure out what his uncle would have wanted for funeral and burial plans, where key paperwork was stored. And it was one of those moments where we just thought there has to be a better way to learn about the end-of-life wishes of a loved one and to record them.
When Kevin and I looked into getting our own estate plans, we found that even though we tried to use digital platforms for pretty much as much we could, there really were only traditional methods out there available to get our wills and estate plans done. And it was expensive, iIt was inconvenient and involved appointments in offices.
That's what we set out to do at Willful, to remove those barriers of cost and convenience, and to set out with a mission to help every Canadian get a comprehensive end-of-life plan in place in an affordable, easy, and convenient way.
Carissa: Yeah, well, you talk about barriers. So there's a lot of barriers and myths when it comes to Canadians' feelings of creating a will. And you've mentioned a few like some are like the association of a high price tag, a thought that a will is only needed for the ultra-wealthy, that it's time-consuming to complete. And probably one of the biggest is it's hard to think about your own mortality.
When you created Willful, it completely disrupted the traditional industry. You've created something simple, something accessible and approachable. What does Willful cover? And is it for everyone?
Erin: Great question. So when we set out to build Willful, we really were thinking about designing it for people like us. My husband and I were in our early 30s at the time, and we didn't have a very complex situation. You know, it's like when I used to use the automated tax software in my early 20s because I had a pretty simple situation. Since then, I've upgraded to an accountant, but really we built Willful for those folks who have a pretty simple situation and don't need to or don't want to visit a professional to get their estate plans done.
If you're the average Canadian, and you're married or single, you have children or pets, you own assets, like a home or have investments, but you don't have a ton of complexity to your situation, then an online platform like Willful, can be a really great set.
I know we're going to talk a bit about when it may not be the right fit, and when you may want to seek out a professional, but a lot of folks choose to use Willful around key life moments like getting married, having children buying a home, and you know, you can always upgrade over time to a professionally drafted will as your situation becomes more complex.
Carissa: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, targets a lot of what you know, Canadians need. So let's unpack that a little bit more here. Two things. You know, some people have questions about the legality of creating a will online, like this is new for many. How would you unpack this for those who have questions about it? And then you mentioned, you know, where it kind of stops or where you would need to see a legal professional. Can you give a little bit more color around when that would happen?
Erin: Absolutely. I think that one of the biggest misconceptions around creating wills in Canada is that you have to use a lawyer. And I want to be clear that if you want to use a lawyer because you want that face-to-face legal advice, or because you have complexity to your situation, absolutely do that. But there's nothing in Canadian law that says you have to visit a professional.
For a will to be legal in Canada, it has to be created by you, you have to have the mental capacity to understand the decisions in it, and in most provinces, it still has to be printed on paper and signed by you with a pen in front of witnesses. British Columbia is the only province that does allow you to electronically sign and store a will as of 2023. So what are the situations that may lead you to want to visit a professional?
Well, you just may want that legal advice, you know? A platform like Willful, you're essentially creating your own legal documents with guidance from us along the way. But we can only provide legal information, we can't give you advice specific to your situation. So if you want advice, you would need to visit a professional. And then there are other complex situations.
For example, if you have a child with a disability, there's a certain type of trust that you would need created in the will. If you have a blended family, and you need special things like spousal trusts or other vehicles to account for that. Iif you have a business and you want to create a secondary will to separate those business assets for tax purposes. We actually have a really great warnings page in the platform that outlines some of these situations in detail. And that says, “Hey, if any of these apply to you, it doesn't mean that you can't use Willful it just means that you might want to speak with a tax specialist financial advisor or a state lawyer before you move forward.”
Kevin and I's mission, at the end of the day, is ensuring every Canadian has a will. So if you, at the end of the day, choose that a lawyer is right for you because of your budget and situation more power to you, we just want you to check it off your list.
Carissa: Yeah, and that's really a great way to put it in. Thank you for unpacking that a little bit more. I think, you know, having that information, even along the way of the journey, as you've just mentioned, will be really helpful because there is times in situations where, you know, there may be more complexities. But I think what you've said is extremely important, is the goal is for every Canadian to have a will. And that's really, you know, the big picture here.
I love your quote, and it was in a December 21 Canadian business article that said, “You don't have to be old, rich, and on the verge of death to need a will.” You know, why is it so important to have a will at any age? Because there are these thoughts that you know, it may be for a certain age set or you know, a certain amount of wealth? Why is it so important at any age?
Erin: It's such a great question. I mean, listen, when I was in university, and I was 20, was I really thinking about estate planning? No. But the reality is that as soon as you hit the age of majority, which in most provinces is 18, you should have a will and power-of-attorney documents in place because the unexpected can happen anytime. We hope that we live extremely long lives and get to see our 100th birthday. But will is like car insurance.
You don't buy car insurance intending to get in a car accident. You buy it just in case, it's there if you need it, and it's in place before something happens. And that's exactly what an estate plan should do. It should be in place before something happens because just like Kevin's uncle, if you pass away without having these plans in place, it's useless to your family. And ultimately, these plans are not about you.
You know, when you think about purchasing life insurance, this is planning for the people that you leave behind to make sure that they're financially taken care of. And an estate plan is essentially that, but it covers all of the other components of your wishes and gives your family that peace of mind that they're doing what you would have wanted. So you know I am under no illusion that most 22-year-olds are going to be graduating school and you know putting a will at the top of their to-do list.
But I really want to get the message across that this is not something you should be waiting to do until retirement. As soon as you have assets to protect loved ones, like a spouse that you want to ensure know your wishes, or children that you'd want to make sure accounted for even pets, more increasingly, these days, it's time to think about getting a will. And again, this is not a really time-intensive, cost-prohibitive process anymore, thanks to online tools like Willful.
Carissa: Yeah, and you mentioned something I was gonna ask like pets, like, even if you are, you know, younger, and you're, you know, maybe even cohabitating with somebody and you don't have children yet, but you may have pets like this is something that you want to think about as well. Because if the unforeseen happens, you want to make sure that your pets, just like your family, are taken care of.
Erin: Absolutely, I mean, there's actually a court case right now in Toronto about a pet owner who actually passed away with a will, but didn't leave any instructions about their pet in the will. And now there's a lawsuit between some of their relatives and friends who are arguing over who should be able to take care of that pet. And you know, it's so easy to appoint a guardian for your pet's care in your will.
Even to leave an amount of money for that person to care for the pet, because my mom has two horses, and those are not inexpensive animals. And so that's really the point of will is, you know, allocating funds for the people that are taking on key roles in your life. And, you know, Carissa, you mentioned earlier, even if you don't have a lot of assets, if I have $1,000, in a savings account, I'd still rather it went to the person that I choose, versus a government formula in my province dictating where that's going to go.
Those government formulas don't account for nonfamily members, like charities or like friends. So it's really important to plan for our loved ones, whether furry or otherwise.
Carissa: Yeah, and I mean, you mentioned something I was gonna mention as well is charity. So this is something that people really think about now, like even if you have assets that you want to distribute, you may not want to distribute all of them to a loved one or beneficiary. You may purposely want to share that, and transition that make a difference to a charity of your choice, something that means a lot to you. And that's something to really think about as well.
Erin: Absolutely. I mean, I think it's one of those topics that's hard to broach, you know? I'm 38 years old, I have a young daughter and another daughter on the way. I have aging parents. And so it's even more important to me, not only to have my own estate plans in place but to ensure my spouse has his plans in place and my parents have their plans in place. Because when they pass away, I am inevitably going to be the one who is dealing with their estates.
Often people say, “Well, how do I bring this up with family members?” It's really awkward. I don't just want to say at the dinner table, “Hey, Mom, Dad, how much are you leaving me in the will?” But I always like to start with that question. What do you want your legacy to be? And one of the most important ways you can leave a positive legacy is leaving money to charity in your will. And you know, it's such a great way to have a positive impact when you're gone, but it also reduces your final tax bill. So there's a practical component to it as well.
Carissa: Yeah, 100%. In my experience, in the profession of financial advice and as a certified financial planner, I've always encouraged people to revisit their financial plan regularly. And every time there is a life event that will affect finances, future goals, and you mentioned it earlier, like buying a house, getting married cohabitating with someone, or even receiving an inheritance, is just to name a few.
Similarly, creating a will is not a one and done. So how would you articulate the triggers to update a will?
Erin: Great question. I mean, to your point, I think often we think of an estate plan or a will historically as something that sits in a filing cabinet and gathers dust. You know, we often hear our loved one say, “Oh, yeah, I've been meaning to update my will.” And the reasons it might be out of date are pretty simple. You've either gotten married, divorced, or had a change in relationship status, and you need to add or remove a spouse from the will. You've had children and you need to add them as beneficiaries or add a guardian for their care.
Same with pets. Maybe you've gotten a new pet or you've lost a pet that you need to remove or any other role in the will has changed. You know, you've changed your mind about who you want to be your executor because it was your best friend and you've had a falling out, or someone named in the will has passed away.
One final one is moving provinces. Every province has a different piece of legislation covering estate planning, and so on Willful it's really easy to log in, you know, change your province, change any of those details, and then just reexecute the document by signing and witnessing it. And it's very low cost compared to the hourly rate of going to a professional to do that.
Carissa: Yeah, and that's really important. You mentioned like changing provinces, like there's a lot of individuals that are moving from province to province. And so that's really important to consider the changes or you know the variations in legislation from province to province.
A hot topic today is the importance of protecting digital assets and including them in your estate plan or your will. These assets, they're not tangible. They live online and they have financial value. There's also online assets that have extreme sentimental value and personal value like photo albums on a cloud service and social media accounts.
I know like my parents, when they go away on vacation, my mum shows me “Okay, here's where all of the, you know, the things that I would need and things that you would need.” Just giving me a list and showing me where her stuff is on a computer and backup and all those things. So this is becoming more and more important. How can we incorporate digital assets into a will?
Erin: Well, Carissa, it brings up a great point, which is a will is really just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to estate planning. You know, there's so much opportunity to record other details from, you know, your final social media posts that you would want posted, to your preferences around what you would want to happen with your digital footprint.
These days, often there's a digital asset clause that's included in your will that gives your executor the power to act on your behalf to close up accounts, or to deal with your digital footprint. But it's always a great idea to also record any of your specific wishes, and to pair it alongside the will because those types of nuances don't necessarily belong in the legal document itself.
But you can always write a letter to the executor or record wishes in another way so that they know you know, do you want your Facebook account to stay active? Or do you want it shut down? I actually have even written out my last social media posts that I would want posted because with my luck, my last tweet would be something about the last Fast and Furious movie I watched. So you know, I've drafted something a little more poignant.
You know, it can seem overwhelming to think, “Oh, my goodness, I have to sit down and do all of these things.” But what we always recommend is start with one thing and add to it every year, you know, just like you sit down to spend a couple hours on your taxes every year, sit down and take stock of what you have in your estate plan, what some of the missing pieces are, and add to it over time. And then it becomes much more manageable.
More importantly, you make sure that those details are up to date because if you were to pass away at age 80, and you haven't updated any of your details for 50 years, it's really not going to be that helpful to the folks that you leave behind.
Carissa: Yeah, that's a really great advice. So Erin, you have achieved so much with Willful in such a short period of time. What's on the horizon for Willful and what's next for you?
Erin: Well, we've been so fortunate to have brands like CIBC who have partnered with us. It's been our most meaningful partnership to date, and so we're really thrilled about that. So we want to continue to partner with amazing brands that can get the message out about the importance of estate planning to their their customers and clients.
For us, the main kind of what's next is going beyond the legal documents and helping Canadians to record some of those complimentary wishes, whether that's more details about their funeral and burial wishes, details about their digital assets, and really just trying to allow them to create this comprehensive plan, and helping them to transition that information to their executors or loved ones when the time comes.
Really just becoming a one-stop shop for everything that you need to do with end-of-life planning in Canada and still maintaining that promise: affordable, easy, and convenient, and fully online.
Carissa: Yeah. Well, we'll look forward to that. And Erin, you know, you have made a not-so-glamorous topic so very enlightening. Thank you for sharing your story, you really are providing an innovative conduit, fresh perspective on something many put on the back burner. And you know, I just really like and what sticking with me right now is what you said is, you know, your goal and the goal of Willful is that every Canadian has a will.
I think, you know, our discussion today really proves that it is so so important to have one and even starting the process, starting small and just building on it. So thank you so much for joining me today.
Erin: Well, thank you. Karissa, as always, you do such an incredible job of spreading the word about the importance of this with your audience. And I'm so grateful for you to you both for the CIBC partnership and for having me on the podcast today. So thank you.
Carissa: Thanks, Erin. And for listeners, I hope this episode made you feel motivated to begin or continue your estate plan or will. If you're a CIBC client, you can access an exclusive Willful offer through the CIBC mobile banking app or through CIBC online banking. And if you want to dive a bit deeper into the topic of transitioning your wealth from a family dynamic perspective, you're gonna want to check out our podcast. The Great Canadian Wealth Transfer: From Baby Boomers To Beneficiaries.
Also on demand is our Smart Advice event called Family wealth - Making the transition from one generation to the next. And this is available on demand at cibc.com/smartadvice. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Smart Advice. To make sure you never miss an episode, subscribe or follow on your favorite podcast platform and visit us for more advice at cibc.com/smartadvice. Thank you.